Debate thread.....ELECTIONS!

otaku-dono · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:11 pm

Palin is too inexperienced to be the vice president. She was only the mayor of Alaska or something for three years, and now she's bumped up to vice president contention. Also, McCain is so old he could die in office, which would make Palin president. She has by no means the experience to take on such a role, and that alone makes McCain's campaign a lot less appealing.

Yes I'm not American but who cares.

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~I have come curiously close to the end...~
~...Beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole...~
~...Defeated, I conceded...~

Credit to Riversong, of course. ^_^

Hydro King · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:36 am

Riversong wrote:

I am so tired of this election, I can't wait until it's over x.x Everywhere there's signs, on tv theres tons of commercials saying crap about both candidates, and now at school theres kids constantly saying stuff.

McCain is 'okay', but I hate Palin, so I support Obama. As for the whole abortion fiasco, I'm not a big religious person myself, and am pro-choice because I don't think I should tell a women what to do to her body. And theres so many different situations to it. I don't like abortion at all actually, so I wouldn't get one unless I was going to die from giving birth, but others may feel differently. And it's not like making it illegal would stop people from getting one, it'd just make it a lot less safe.

... ... ... Quite honestly, I'm exceedingly shocked that you of all people are pro-death, RS... Life itself is absolutely amazing; I thought that people would've held it in high regard... (of course, I have been wrong about many things...)
The whole idea of abortion is despicably horrid! Just think if Thomas Edison's parents aborted him; me and you wouldn't be having this conversation on the internet right now. And just think if mine or your parents aborted us...? Sad

Every life is important, not just so-called 'chosen' lives... -_-;
Also, I know that people could still have abortions even if it were illegal, but it would be harder to do so; thus, more lives could be saved.

I know that you guys are putting down McCain's vice-presidential choice a lot, but Obama's isn't any better. <(if not worse)

otaku-dono wrote:

Yes I'm not American but who cares.

Well, not that this applies to you, but most of the time when a non-American country says that a presidential candidate would be a good choice for president, it usually isn't. :/ (not that I'm 100% sure on this, but a very knowledgeable American man said it)

My whole family fears the worst if Obama gets in... (especially my dad) I don't have any doubt that Obama will bring 'change' to this country...

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otaku-dono · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:49 am

The thing with abortion is that, despite being "horrid", it stops people from living a crappy live. That's mainly aimed at teenagers who get pregnant. They make mistakes in school, and since they can get an abortion they can get over their mistake, move on and redeem themselves. Without abortion, there would be pretty much no way that could happen; so, for example, gifted people who make that one mistake or are unfortunate can screw their whole future up without doing anything wrong. People who have their lives ahead of them don't have to throw it away just for new life which they can create at a later date anyway. Abortion is a good thing because of that.

_________________
~I have come curiously close to the end...~
~...Beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole...~
~...Defeated, I conceded...~

Credit to Riversong, of course. ^_^

Hydro King · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:22 pm

Abortion is never a good thing...
People who make mistakes need to live with their mistakes; they can't just erase what they've done by paying trained assassins to murder an innocent life. <(that came from THEM mind you)
Also, how could someone who's had abortion possibly have some kind of life-changing 'gift' to offer to the world? - Most people who have abortion ruin their lives by doing so. Most of them become very unstable and turn into nervous wrecks. Some may even become so severely depressed that they may commit suicide.

The people who are 'unfortunate' should not carry out their misfortune with abortion. - Instead, they should either keep the child or send the little guy to an orphanage. <(where a nice couple that can't have children can adopt him/her) Then, the police should track down the ***tard that did this terrible thing, lock him away in prison, and throw away the key.

otaku-dono wrote:

People who have their lives ahead of them don't have to throw it away just for new life which they can create at a later date anyway.

Like I said before, I thought that people cared and had more respect for human life... Oh wait, that's right, we have the theory of evolution <('survival of the fittest', 'I'm #1', etc., etc.) being printed onto everyone's minds! - Silly me...

What this whole 'abortion' thing comes down to in the end is what you, as a person, believe to be true about this world and our existence.
Well, I guess I'll head on out of this debate. - Not too much can be accomplished by having a debate such as this with a person that doesn't see eye-to-eye with my personal beliefs. <(Christianity)

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otaku-dono · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:41 pm

Hydro King wrote:

Then, the police should track down the ***tard that did this terrible thing, lock him away in prison, and throw away the key.

Just clarifying, do you mean the male who impregnated the female?

Hydro King wrote:

Not too much can be accomplished by having a debate such as this with a person that doesn't see eye-to-eye with my personal beliefs. <(Christianity)

Ah. This won't work then, since I'm atheist >_>

_________________
~I have come curiously close to the end...~
~...Beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole...~
~...Defeated, I conceded...~

Credit to Riversong, of course. ^_^

Hydro King · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:57 pm

otaku-dono wrote:

Hydro King wrote:

Then, the police should track down the ***tard that did this terrible thing, lock him away in prison, and throw away the key.

Just clarifying, do you mean the male who impregnated the female?

Yes, that's what I meant. Those people are uncultured animals as far as I'm concerned. - I have close to no respect for them at all.

otaku-dono wrote:

Hydro King wrote:

Not too much can be accomplished by having a debate such as this with a person that doesn't see eye-to-eye with my personal beliefs. <(Christianity)

Ah. This won't work then, since I'm atheist >_>

Exactly. I mean, we could talk and talk about this for as long as we'd like, but nothing could be solved because of differences in our background beliefs...

Well, I suppose that's that...

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otaku-dono · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:01 pm

Hydro King wrote:

Yes, that's what I meant. Those people are uncultured animals as far as I'm concerned. - I have close to no respect for them at all.

It doesn't deserve imprisonment though. That's wasting space for people who actually commit crimes.

Isn't this supposed to be about the election anyways, not abortion >_>;;

_________________
~I have come curiously close to the end...~
~...Beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole...~
~...Defeated, I conceded...~

Credit to Riversong, of course. ^_^

Riversong · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:42 pm

Quote:

. ... ... Quite honestly, I'm exceedingly shocked that you of all people are pro-death, RS... Life itself is absolutely amazing; I thought that people would've held it in high regard... (of course, I have been wrong about many things...)
The whole idea of abortion is despicably horrid! Just think if Thomas Edison's parents aborted him; me and you wouldn't be having this conversation on the internet right now. And just think if mine or your parents aborted us...? Sad Every life is important, not just so-called 'chosen' lives... -_-;
Also, I know that people could still have abortions even if it were illegal, but it would be harder to do so; thus, more lives could be saved.

...I'm not pro-DEATH. See, that's where all the trouble comes from, when people start assuming that just because I support women having a CHOICE in what to do with their body, i'm automatically in favor of killing off fetuses. No. A women, by the time she's able to conceive, already has people who care about her, she has memories, a personality, everything that makes a human life worth living. A fetus has none of that. If a women feels that getting an abortion would be for the best, how is that our business (though her family should have some say in it) ? If she feels guilty afterwards, then too bad.

This is the real world. Abuse, poverty, sickness, death, they all thrive. What are the odds of an unborn child amounting to something (if they weren't aborted)? How many kids sit in orphanages, waiting for the perfect couple that never comes? You could always look at it this way if your into religious aspects: Say that a fetus is aborted, their soul could go to another fetus that will be born into a happy family. No loss.

Now that I think about it, I hate abortion. I do. But in the end, I think it should be the women who actually has to go through 9 months + birth who decides. And your right, it all comes down to beliefs. Your Christian, so is my family. But i'm not I guess, i'm open to ideas when it comes to religion.

Quote:

It doesn't deserve imprisonment though. That's wasting space for people who actually commit crimes.

Wait, are you saying that people who are guilty of rape shouldn't put locked away to prevent the same incident from happening again?

Quote:

Isn't this supposed to be about the election anyways, not abortion >_>;;

Sorry, I needed a good debate.

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Hydro King · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:34 pm

otaku-dono wrote:

Isn't this supposed to be about the election anyways, not abortion >_>;;

Um, oh yeah! ^_^; Sorry about that! I got a little carried away!

Riversong wrote:

Now that I think about it, I hate abortion. I do. But in the end, I think it should be the women who actually has to go through 9 months + birth who decides.

Ugh, no... Riversong, just thinkabout it: if a woman is pregnant, then she already has decided, hasn't she? I believe abortion is selfish way to have pleasure without having to face the consequences.

Riversong wrote:

And your right, it all comes down to beliefs. Your Christian, so is my family. But i'm not I guess, i'm open to ideas when it comes to religion.

I respect your opinions, RS. Just be careful about which ideas you choose accept to be alright. Also, I strongly suggest that you study what your Bible has to say about certain subjects such as this often.

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Riversong · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:54 pm

Quote:

I respect your opinions, RS. Just be careful about which ideas you choose accept to be alright. Also, I strongly suggest that you study what your Bible has to say about certain subjects such as this often.

Quote:

Ugh, no... Riversong, just thinkabout it: if a woman is pregnant, then she already has decided, hasn't she? I believe abortion is selfish way to have pleasure without having to face the consequences.

I've partly read the bible (The New Testament btw). I'm not going to rely on it to have all the answers, because it was written by mankind, and we're no where near perfect. Just like women who choose to get abortions, mistakes are easily made. "If a women is pregnant, then she already has decided, hasn't she?" Not really, sex isn't solely for reproducing, it's also for pleasure. Even animals have been discovered doing it for pleasure. I'm not saying your wrong (your not, it does seem selfish), but just because you feel that way (along with a good amount of people) doesn't mean that the people who are actually going through the experience shouldn't have a choice. As the saying goes, "Don't like abortion? Don't get one." Let others decide for themselves. And to go with the actual topic, that's why I prefer Obama over McCain, because at least Obama isn't trying to take away the freedom to have a say in what happens to their body.

And that's my take on it. You'll most likely disagree with what I said, but freedom of speech, neh?

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Hydro King · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:54 am

Riversong wrote:

Quote:

I respect your opinions, RS. Just be careful about which ideas you choose accept to be alright. Also, I strongly suggest that you study what your Bible has to say about certain subjects such as this often.

Quote:

Ugh, no... Riversong, just thinkabout it: if a woman is pregnant, then she already has decided, hasn't she? I believe abortion is selfish way to have pleasure without having to face the consequences.

I've partly read the bible (The New Testament btw). I'm not going to rely on it to have all the answers, because it was written by mankind, and we're no where near perfect. Just like women who choose to get abortions, mistakes are easily made. "If a women is pregnant, then she already has decided, hasn't she?" Not really, sex isn't solely for reproducing, it's also for pleasure. Even animals have been discovered doing it for pleasure. I'm not saying your wrong (your not, it does seem selfish), but just because you feel that way (along with a good amount of people) doesn't mean that the people who are actually going through the experience shouldn't have a choice. As the saying goes, "Don't like abortion? Don't get one." Let others decide for themselves. And to go with the actual topic, that's why I prefer Obama over McCain, because at least Obama isn't not trying to take away the freedom to have a choice.

And that's my take on it. You'll most likely disagree with what I said, but freedom of speech, neh?

Yes, as a matter of fact I will have to disagree with you.
RS, please don't bother to make an argument saying that parts of the Bible are probably incorrect.

#1. While it is absolutely true that God used man to right the Bible, these men, chosen by God, were filled with the Holy Spirit. - He used them much like we use a pen to write.
#2. Why do you think God would let us get are hands on a book about Him and His marvelous Creation if it wasn't 100% correct? - I you think God would do that, then you might as well just ditch the entire Bible and believe that the universe(and EVERYTHING in it) came from some random explosion in empty space.

Why yes, RS, God did intend for sex to be pleasurable. - But he also intended sex to be for husband and wife (that should expect to have children), not bf and gf. By McCain making abortion illegal, it will greatly discourage unmarried couples to have sex, (unless of course they want to have children) thus setting a more Biblical standard. <(even though we all know this world will never be anywhere near perfect)
And like I said in one of my earlier posts, even though it might be pleasurable, people need to accept the reality that in doing it, they could very well have children. If Obama gets in and abortion becomes completely legal, then everything will remain the same and people will still be living the very same immoral lives they are now. <(without having to face the reality of sex by using abortion)

And animals don't just do it for pleasure and reproduction. - It's their natural God-given instinct to breed when the time is right.

People need to start realizing that they can't escape a sin with another sin(abortion). - Two wrongs will never make a right.
We, as Christians, RS, need to make a stand for what is right and put down the evil in this world. - I pray that you will.

People are sinners. - if you start going by what you, yourself, thinks to be permissible, then anything becomes permissible. (there becomes no absolute right or wrong) That's why I seek God's Word for guidance in my daily life, instead of deciding what's right and wrong with my own sinful mind.

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otaku-dono · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:06 am

Riversong wrote:

Wait, are you saying that people who are guilty of rape shouldn't put locked away to prevent the same incident from happening again?

I was talking about accidental pregnancy, as in a condom breaking or something. Rape is a crime, I know that, and if it is through those means then a jail sentence is obvious. But, relating that back to abortion, that just furthers the case as to why abortion should be allowed. Some girl can get raped and impregnated, by no fault of theirs, and they can actually do something to prevent having a baby. If there was no abortion, rape victims would be stuck with this baby they don't want. When that baby is born, they probably would either offload it to an orphanage since they don't want that scar to be around them.

Hydro King wrote:

if a woman is pregnant, then she already has decided, hasn't she?

No. Contraception is not 100% foolproof. Condoms can break. Accidents happen.

Hydro King wrote:

thus setting a more Biblical standard.

People break the law all the time, do you really think the majority of people care about some book?

_________________
~I have come curiously close to the end...~
~...Beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole...~
~...Defeated, I conceded...~

Credit to Riversong, of course. ^_^

Hydro King · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:45 am

otaku-dono wrote:

I was talking about accidental pregnancy, as in a condom breaking or something.

XD Oh, I thought you were talking about rape too!

otaku-dono wrote:

Rape is a crime, I know that, and if it is through those means then a jail sentence is obvious. But, relating that back to abortion, that just furthers the case as to why abortion should be allowed. Some girl can get raped and impregnated, by no fault of theirs, and they can actually do something to prevent having a baby. If there was no abortion, rape victims would be stuck with this baby they don't want. When that baby is born, they probably would either offload it to an orphanage since they don't want that scar to be around them.

That still doesn't give a good enough reason for murdering an innocent child that's 'unwanted'.

otaku-dono wrote:

No. Contraception is not 100% foolproof. Condoms can break. Accidents happen.

Yes, actually. As I said before, sex is for husband and wife. - Period. it should never, under any circumstances, happen outside of marriage. (...but since it can and does...) Since condoms can in fact break and such, then a woman should know the risks and accept what happens if something in their evil act goes wrong.

otaku-dono wrote:

People break the law all the time, do you really think the majority of people care about some book?

No, I don't think so at all. (though me and many other people would) It would strengthen a few Biblical morals slightly though.

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otaku-dono · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:55 am

Hydro King wrote:

XD Oh, I thought you were talking about rape too!

Nope. Sorry about the confusion >_>;;

Hydro King wrote:

That still doesn't give a good enough reason for murdering an innocent child that's 'unwanted'.

So potentially ruining one person's life just because of misfortune is worth just one life? I think not.

Hydro King wrote:

Yes, actually. As I said before, sex is for husband and wife. - Period. it should never, under any circumstances, happen outside of marriage. (...but since it can and does...) Since condoms can in fact break and such, then a woman should know the risks and accept what happens if something in their evil act goes wrong.

I think condoms are 99% effective. That isn't risky, that's just extremely unlucky if you happen to get that 1%. And I won't comment about the christian belief in that statement.

Hydro King wrote:

No, I don't think so at all. (though me and many other people would) It would strengthen a few Biblical morals slightly though.

Which only benefits those who live by biblical morals, which is far less than those who don't.

_________________
~I have come curiously close to the end...~
~...Beneath my self-indulgent pitiful hole...~
~...Defeated, I conceded...~

Credit to Riversong, of course. ^_^

Hydro King · Subject: Re: Debate thread.....ELECTIONS! Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:54 am

*sigh* I guess I should've listened to my own words and just left this discussion earlier...
Listen, since I know that we could go on and on for eternity, I'll just leave now, OK? XD

Well, it was a good discussion, OD and RS! You gave me a few things to think about and I hope I gave you a bit of food for thought too. Smile

Sayonara

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